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Helps avoid late fees. They estimated using someone else's meter. I've had Apple Card since day one. BGR is a part of Penske Media Corporation. Since then I have not had a meter reader actually read my meters, every bill is "estimated because of dog." [1], 1. https://twitter.com/dcurtis/status/1366485756546539520. You're right. Making entirely unlinked/unique Apple IDs is expensive because each one requires a working phone number to create. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. That's true, but an extraordinary claim without extraordinary evidence is also not a particularly strong basis for reasoning. That's the thing though: someone who has bought their car and their home in cash isn't a high-risk borrower, rather, he or she is someone who is able to save in order to do that, so he or she should be considered a low-risk borrower. Google chicanery could hit someone much harder, given how many more folks depend on Google for email. E.g. Is the fact that ZFC implies that 1+1=2 an absolute truth? How this is supposed to legally implicit the products you buy from a separate company? Suspend or close your Account; Even if the person is 'a somebody'[1] there is often no context to other details just outrage by the community believing it as truth in some way. The tweet and the defensive comments here now hold no water. WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF BEING IN DEFAULT This comment thread is a reasonable discussion about how it seemed like he made a false statement, because thats what he did. Every card which I've owned has allowed an option to autopay the minimum payment. Note: App Store cards are equivalent to iTunes cards, but NOT Apple Store cards. Maybe my wording was to deterministic and should've been worded as more a "possibility", but a complex system like this takes a ton of requirements and testing and it is super hard to see Apple not paying attention to this specific issue. One day I got a text that my balance was low. Most of the functionality of Signal's "recent conversations" covers this need for me. If I used method #1, I could auto-pay that credit card with #2 and maybe #3. At the time of writing, there was none. You absolutely can, and the government has, banned exclusive deals and associations before. Flew to another country once, with a newborn baby. Please provide some clearer support for this statement of supposed fact. I'm in the US myself and in my experience, almost everyone advocates auto-pay. You would just have to submit proof of your assets and possibly history of expenses. I very much agree. [1] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/09/29/epic-games-unre [2] https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/131179493779778355 Says nothing about termination of SIWA on current apps as SIWA will continue to work on existing Apps. Confirmation bias is strong, I guess. This is the kind of thing that could be a mistake on Apple's side, could be a lie from the user, or could be a misunderstanding of what actually happened. If it was unintentional I'd expect Apple to have an easy and quick resolution to fixing it, and I'd also think if Apple's systems were that linked it would have happened more immediate not taken ~15 days. I manually pay my electric and gas. Can a human colony be self-sustaining without sunlight using mushrooms? Do you have any evidence aside from a feeling? The OP posted a hugely contradictory post with respect to these original comments. Apple has done it before. Test should be has enough info been presented to draw a conclusion even if the person was nobody or just had opened a twitter account? I resisted a long time and just had some of my accounts set to pay minimum payments, but that got expensive when I forgot to make manual payments. Im thinking well past 3 months of notifications or something, maybe even a year, considering it goes beyond just the card itself. Also, Apple Card provides a lot of notifications of due payments if you dont have autopay. And imagine you are in a dispute with Apple on this matter for longer than 30days without resolution, the time your iCloud would keep your backup before it is completely wipe out due to Account termination. > So I guess this is a US thing. I think it's reasonable to believe that this system as a whole is exploitive and unfair, those with poor credit pay more to fund cash back for others and the high interest rates leading to circles of debt, but given this is the way it is, I think its a perfectly good idea for someone to have an Apple Card depending on their circumstances. Fundamentally, the issue is that a single company is. I dont even know how to respond to this appeal to amorphous authority, and to reply to the best possible interpretation of the post, Ill pass over it. I've setup auto-pay on several accounts and left it running for over a decade. You wouldn't be able to run a bank without it. Could it be that when the the card fails, the services paid by that card also fail to receive the payment, thus they get locked until a payment is made? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23995750. Show that involves a character cloning his colleagues and making them into videogame characters? 2. Require you to immediately pay all or any portion of your total outstanding balance (this action may also be taken upon death); And the app for the card goes out of its way to keep you from paying any unnecessary interest charges, -This sort of punitive action just does not jibe with the entire nature of the product or Apple's service in general. Doubting something and dismissing it are two different animals in the same zoo. If you have a better idea, it's probably worth a lot of money. Authorizing a merchant to keep your credit card info on file and to charge that whenever they want to bill you. Subscribers also get access to iCloud Private Relay, Hide My Email, a custom email domain, and HomeKit Secure Video support for up to an unlimited number of cameras. Once you use one of these for a while and pay it off every month, you would start building up a credit history/credit score that would allow you access to better lending deals. Stack Exchange network consists of 180 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. It wouldnt be the first time they have gone through such phases. Centralizing your entire digital life like that is begging for identity theft, at least from where I'm standing. At a conservative estimate this would mean there must have been thousands of missed payments, and therefore thousands of locked Apple accounts. I'm really curious who thought it was a good idea to use this line of credit in the first place. I think they changed that after the EPIC case. Customer service wasn't able to push the order through without taking credit card information directly, and I ended up canceling the order, which means I lose my place in the order queue. Everything old is new again. The government needs to force divestiture of each product category into a separately run company. This implies 10s of millions of payments. Its clearly meant to be an "apple experience", and you'd be forgiven for not remembering GS was involved at all. Half the "front page" of Imgur is Twitter hot takes now, so I don't go there any more either. No cc, no manual payments via ach. 3. How should I deal with coworkers not respecting my blocking off time in my calendar for work? Except sometimes (once).. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26300139. This poster continues to fling accusations at Apple and has yet to provide any proof of any of these suppositions whatsoever. These posts do have a very specific feel to them, in that it's about how a perfectly rational engineering decision leads to bad UX. It's madness to ever allow automatic financial transactions that aren't fixed, scheduled payments from trusted vendors. I didnt have a credit score until my mid 20s because I avoided them like the plague and bought only with money I had. I've had to dispute bills in the past that were unexplainably incorrect by $10, $20, sometimes close to $50, and if I had them on AutoPay I probably wouldn't have even noticed it. If you are in default, we may take any of the following actions to the extent permitted under applicable law: I guess account is one whole system the way they built it so it includes his iCloud and whatnot. So I ended up in a foreign country penniless. No interest if you pay off the balance of the card every month. So they haven't refined their processes since Launch Day? It's not defining a logical proposition -- that's just you extracting more gaurantees from the statement than what was actually specified. ( Like doing it with VPN ). No its not; it's defining a probability. One is indeed absurd and very salient to all Apple users, the other two would be unsurprising and frankly of no real concern. > if you accrue a 17k bill for a service then that's what's due. It can't be just that. And you didn't post any convincing evidence of that. It sounds like you're "over-exposed" to Apple in this risk category. I have auto-pay set up on CCs as a backup just in case I ever fall into a coma and cant make a manual payment. > The disabling of iCloud, App Store, and Apple ID accounts is actually an Apple Card policy for overdue accounts. I'm just asking whether there's any meat to your claim. Go figure. I believe you, but I also trust the original poster by reputation. PayPal had authorized but not charged an M1 laptop I had ordered with a non-English keyboard, and somehow the order hung. Ban vertical integration. 5. > always bought everything with money I knew I had. Why is that embarassing? Many people use credit cards while always paying the balance in full and use them for rewards (you could argue that these rewards are priced into the cost of goods so not getting them is leaving money on the table). Maybe not too frequent, but good to be aware. Their platform their choice, right? This is not a bug, this is by design. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top. I think Tim wasn't being too honest here. https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/aol-near-release-of-in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government. Just like RAID storage allows one drive to fail and you not lose access to your data, you could back up your data twice. I carefully plan my bill paying schedule so as to never go below zero in my checking account. But its meant to feel like apple is the bank. Apple doesnt lend any money, is not owed any money, and takes no part in the financing aspect. But thats all the GP is saying. Nope -- iCloud was not past due. We still dont know quite how large the payouts will be or when they will start to go out. This isn't true. I could only spend so many hours holding their fucking hands before I had to give up. If you read Tim's tweet, it says in the policy "Ability to ENABLE Apple services [like] Sign in with Apple". I wanted to know if the comment was just a pontification or if there was actually a reason to dismiss what dcurtis said. I keep refreshing these comments and the twitter thread to see if any better info is provided. Those people chose to pay market rate for their electricity, that is not always going to turn out well for the consumer during events that would lead to market rate being completely out of wack. This site is not affiliated with or endorsed by Apple Inc. in any way. Not to say everybody needs a credit card/score, but they do have advantages if youre responsible with them. This discussion wasnt dismissing anything. The security threat it poses is not limited to just Apple, and it ultimately leads to a less competitive industry overall. So you think any of the resized how absurdly high market rates can get. If that's the case, and I can only speak for my experience in the UK and across the EU for a few years, I'll take the automated payment over the infinitesimal threat of being compromised and clicking a 'dispute this payment' link in my account. . You don't even need payment problems, someone can call into the support and have your account disabled. Others had already asked dcurtis the same and he said he would write more about it later. Receipts: https://dcurt.is/apple-card-can-disable-your-icloud-account. Oh fuck. The disabling of iCloud, App Store, and Apple ID accounts is actually an Apple Card policy for overdue accounts, and they have a team dedicated to handling these account de-activation issues. * Security reasons It's not that hard. Yeah, not disagreeing at all. Our entire society is built off of interest rates. It took three months for the company to get the amount right, and then it took another three months to get my money back for the first three months they billed incorrectly. Apple needs this ASAP. What if you are traveling and Apple decides they really need another identifier, and locks you out of your stuff? How likely is it that this is the policy, and weve never heard about it before now? We experienced the same thing in College when after paying our electric bill for two months, they shut our power off without notice. Their account was probably locked because they missed a payment. So, for example, Google could be forbidden from requiring Google product apps are preloaded on Android phones. Take any other action permitted by law. Tannakian-type reconstruction of etale fundamental group. I'm not going to acquiesce to the contrary. In the meantime, if youve been paying for iCloud for years, you might have a surprise refund coming your way later this year. Im not for a second suggesting this is your intent, but I am pointing out that this is a likely effect, dependent on what the context actually turns out to be. The cheapest option is the 50GB plan, which costs $0.99 a month. iCloud storage full: "Not Enough Storage". If you get to the end of the pay period and your card balance is greater than your checking balance, then you lose. You're conflating two different parent comments; I'll take them separately. Regardless of who is issuing bank, the lived experience of using it is that it feels like apple is managing my money. My electric company where I lived a few years ago would take mailed in check or autopay ach only. As I picked up my phone I got another saying balance was 0. over Apple's overreach as a credit facilitator (as Goldman is the issuer for the card) if this is verified as expected behavior. Not sure I understand this, because autopay or not, if you accrue a 17k bill for a service then that's what's due unless you negotiate otherwise, and the lack of autopay is irrelevant. Seemed insane and dangerous to me. I can skip if for a month (or two) and not a problem. If you are purchasing an apple device, the apple card gives a competitive cash back reward. Routine things like what happens when payments get missed is usually automated. I stopped paying for iCloud and it didnt diable my Apple ID nor my Apple Card. Load up your account with $150, and youve got yourself a year of prepaid 1TB storage on iCloud, with enough leftover for an iTunes Match subscription. Is it patent infringement to produce patented goods but take no compensation? I've known people who received huge bills where it was the billing companies fault (such as a bad meter for utility service). But I learned the hard way that it is not, and it's dangerous to mess with. Many of the other potential actions are similar to those already proposed or imposed upon Google in various European or other international jurisdictions. Of course even if it wasn't intentional, it's still another example of the single-point-of-failure problem we have when our entire lives depend on an account with a tech company that's way too big to care when users fall through the cracks. Ice cream? On page 11, consequences of "Default" include suspension of your "account". I check the bank account every 6 weeks or so, and can investigate then if necessary. The same is true for a HackerNews comment. If youre a class member, you will receive a pro rata distribution based on the amount you paid during the dates above. 1. The 5GB of free cloud storage that Apple offers has always been comically low. Yes, but its a not a fair conversation to start by spreading a false statement. Shouldnt be true because that should go in the next month. With any system that has variable costs (such as usage fees) I far prefer to receive a bill and pay it by hand because it only takes one error to completely wipe me out financially. Even if it is a larger evil competitor, these do seem like legitimate problems. But then I remind myself that really HN is just a tool for billionaires to steal our ideas. Original poster observed A, then observed B, and concluded causality. Getting locked out for any amount of time would be super frustrating. Half of serious news articles seem to either be ABOUT a Tweet, or carry at least one Twitter quote to further its narrative. >Ironically it means that if I was to apply for a credit card it would be very difficult to get it. But yes - it absolutely could be a symptom of a breakdown in management somewhere in Apple leading to more customer unfriendly policy outcomes. According to the OP, they havent - Sign In with Apple still works. Buying a Mac on credit is considerably cheaper than buying with cash. Every time you carry over your balance, it's a big win for the credit companies. What makes you believe this is not intentional? :), Secure iCloud storage for years in advance, Design patterns for asynchronous API communication. 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Because it's super convenient. The first provider, the one who made a mistake, can be talked into correcting it (hopefully anyway). I couldn't believe there was any linkages between the 2 things. If you ever write this up (or have written this up) in detail, please do share. I'd _never_ let any major bills pull directly from my accounts. All the stuff with their new chips. Apple has some similar examples, though less. I asked someone if he had any evidence for something he said, and then an hour later someone else said a different thing that is relevant to the conversation. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. But boy what a fucked up support experience and they should probably end relationship with Goldman and just stick to apple pay. Ask Different is a question and answer site for power users of Apple hardware and software. Or are you simply following a chain of assumptions to a place that meets your opinion of Apple? Backups exceed 5GB. I'd also recommend using PayPal for recurring charged. Eh, I disagree. One commenter 'this is why I will not sign up for Apple Card' other comments 'big corporations suck' and so on. If anything, Goldman Sachs is the one that continues to be a bank, and Apple is providing the technical front end for it. Otherwise, if that ain't the money-quote, I don't know what you're reading but it's not what I'm reading. Credit card auto pay only happens 4 weeks or more after the charges post. Can you give an idea for how this law is written? No extra interest charges, -Apple Card doesn't even have any late fees, or annual fees, or fees of any kind. I don't use iCloud at all. Electricity utility couldn't read the meter because of the dog, so they too estimated based on past usage. Nobody took me up on it. Can't verify this myself, but if true - this seems like part of a growing problem with big-tech, that everything is connected to one account, and as far as risk goes - you (the consumer) are putting all your eggs in one basket. If some service suddenly tries to charge 17K it's almost certainly an error on their part. Once you do this, your eyes open to just how much of our news cycle is being carried by Twitter, and how much it bleeds over into everything else now. Any takers? There has to be more to this story, this can't be the first person to miss a payment. You don't have to accept a logical proposition in order to consider/entertain it. Some people use their CC as an accounts payable. Sorry but how is this dangerous? I made apple IDs for all three of my children without a phone number or pre-existing email address (their @icloud.com email was their first, created during setup). For merchants that can not send bills electronically to your bank's bill paying service, many banks will let your configure the bill paying service to send the merchant a fixed amount on a regular schedule. How come I am seeing surprising behavior from various Apple products multiple times a week at this point? That is, the conclusion reached by twitter is not well-reasoned, which gives kevindong the well-reasoned conclusion: it's probably false. We are allowed to go on insulting and attacking each other as long as its subtle enough to be able to be explained away. We've got so many MUCH MORE likely scenarios. The iCloud subscription was not past due. 12 months of the time-value of money + you get 3% cash back. The Interleaving Effect: How widely is this used? Missed payment leads to account lockdown is how an engineer would think to set things up, but not someone who's advocating for the user's experience. There's simply no way that Apple is doing this; there is another explanation for this single user having this experience and I'm sure that will come out. Bunch of people in Texas just got surprise massive electric bills. For example, evidence would be "this happened to me and I didn't encounter the same consequences for my Apple account.". Are you saying anyone can disable anyone else's appleid by just hammering. >That never fails to completely throw financial institutions for a loop; they can't conceptualize it. You make a tweet in a panic, and maybe hoping to get some attention, since the faceless trillion dollar company doesn't give a fuck about you. I've yet to hear of a missed payment on an apple card resulting in this (and I have an apple card and have missed payments). Why does hashing a password result in different hashes, each time. I greatly regret signing up for Apple Card and please DON'T. I have an Apple Card. the sketchy and hard-to-cancel services. If only there was some format one could use on the internet that was useful for discussing something in longer-than-240-character statements. They're paying for iCloud with their Apple Card. Yes, I don't think Apple Card has anything to do with it - I think his iCloud subscription was past due and. SIWA will still work for two weeks - that doesn't imply Apple might have terminated SIWA two weeks after that? Additionally, I like to review every bill I pay to make sure it makes sense. You are also spot-on regarding the "risk" of increased spending on apps and music, which, funnily enough, turns out to be a much more rewarding avenue for the money I had already expected to lose to falling storage costs! But all the other penalties you'll be responsible for since your account was indeed empty. Yes, there is a possibility it's true, and yes, its not valid to declare it false only on the basis that aliens are involved, but it would be unreasonable to assume that possibility it is true is significant based on the claim alone. This is a common way damaging misinformation starts to spread. Now, with larger apps and higher-quality photos and videos, its almost insulting. I keep a phone number list in Standard Notes. > it should be illegal for a company to block your account on unrelated services. Good for them. Not in a legal sense but the apple credit card through a first party apple app only available on an apple phone that apple manages the UI and controls the marketing and perception is pretty close to an apple bank even if some other legal entity has the excel spreadsheet with account balances (obvi not how that really works). My mom's Apple account was disabled with the same message, thought it was billing related as well. I'm bothered just by having a recurring Netflix draw. There is then an immediate unlock option with a trusted device or recovery key etc. So that makes it "certainly" not possible that someone can have a sub-par customer sevice interaction? 1 click to see all recurring charges and 1 click to cancel. > If in fact the statement by dcurtis is the first efflorescence of the problem, your line of thinking would reject it anyway. I'm aware of a situation where a user wanted to cancel an account with an app they had subscribed to via the app store. This is true, but we have to take it in context. You have until May 23, 2022 to opt out. They don't, for example, handle my email; I prefer Dropbox to iCloud; etc. Upon digging it was because we were still listed as "Residents" on the bills we were paying. I auto-pay all my bills (rent, utilities, etc), but manually pay my credit cards weekly. If I understand your question correctly, you are worried that a rejected payment will cause you to lose all of your iCloud-stored data within 15 days. I asked them to please call me so I can lock up my chickens. But ugh please do. Tons of people do it. Im not sure why the commenters are so eager to believe a comment from a random Twitter account posted to HN. This was an expensive mistake, and also dinged my credit score for about four months. Site design / logo 2022 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. It's a great time to review your own services and products, and figure out if you have any "portfolio killer" dependencies. When you see a fraudulent charge, you dispute it, even if youve already auto-paid the balance. A good way to think about it is: iTunes/App Store cards = software & services, whereas Apple Store cards = physical goods. Granted, there's not much way to avoid that in american society. You're right that this would make a good writeup. I think at this point it is clear that Big Tech do not have any policy, rule or terms of service that is enforced with anything that could be reasonably be considered "uniform". I have no idea why. They can conceptualize it. Begin collections activities; This is not a false claim. An example would be what was done with AIM. > That's just asking for a headache if anything is every compromised, or if a vendor fraudulently or accidentally overcharges you, I think the posters touting autopay should review the 'experience of being poor-ish'. It's never been necessary. As the name suggests, an iCloud Plus subscription does offer more than just storage. I keep my checking account balance intentionally low and often run into times where paying off my cards would overdraft me. dcurtis isn't a random Twitter account; he's a regular here (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dcurtis) and made svbtle. Apple is a trademark of Apple Inc., registered in the US and other countries. Its not, at all. If not, then its not the same at all. rev2022.7.21.42639. And this could even be a false claim without having some sort of proof. (I've worked on such systems. Decline or otherwise limit your ability to make Transactions; It's not hard to imagine a payment issue for iCloud causing iCloud to be locked or otherwise limited, and given that Apple's online services tend to be buggy and unreliable it's not a huge stretch to think this could have some unintended consequences for adjacent things like the App Store. It was the best card until it stopped working, then it's the worse card I've ever had. I'd say this is horizontal integration, but they've built so much of a monolith and captured so much commerce, that it almost feels like a vertical stack. Why do we even let Apple do our banking in the first place? Its the opposite of vertical integration. Seems like he screwed up and is just trying to save face. > Apple is entirely within its rights to terminate Epic Games, Inc.'s developer account and all related functionality, but Sign In with Apple will continue to function for Apple customers for the next two weeks. Apple simply takes advantage of their platform and why wouldn't they? I don't use an Apple ID on desktops at all, save for one that has its own disposable one for certain essential apps that are not available elsewhere (Apple Configurator 2 is required to restore M1 macs). It's classifying the first instance as false. And it's valid to state it "feels false", if only because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -- the same way it's valid to not significantly consider the claim "I saw an alien" stated on its own. It seems like as written, they may simply be false based on what you have now said. This is a heavy accusation and I think the burden is heavily on the accuser to provide clear evidence that lack of payment for anything somehow locks you out of your Apple account.

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